B.M. is a Jewish citizen of Israel and one of the voices that in these months of genocide has emerged brighter and sharper against the Israeli politics, often denouncing how deep they’re rooted in the national zionist culture and how spread they are within Israeli society. Their account on X has become one of the most active and most followed all over the world, with precious testimonies and first-hand visual and textual documentation of Israeli crimes, especially when it comes to genocide’s incitement. In this interview to Kritica, B.M. shares with us their views on both the current situation and a vision about the future in Israel as we know it.
Let’s begin from the strict actuality. The break of the ceasefire and the start of the fully operative military genocide against Palestinians both in Gaza and West Bank seems now completely out of control. The government seems to have embraced the will to “finish the iob” as they repeatedly say. At the same moment, at least a part of the Israeli society seems to be exhausted and tired of the situation produced by the Government after the 7th Octobe and the total disregardment for the hostages’ fate. In some cases, they even show an unexpected solidarity with the Palestinian people, which is not so common to see in Israel. Could you navigate through this phase of the events?
Well, at this point I really find it hard to believe, despite growing discontent among many Israelis, that internal pressure in Israel could really stop the extermination campaign. The number of Israelis who actually display any empathy whatsoever towards the Palestinians in Gaza is still completely negligible. The portion of the Israeli population that does seek to “end the war”, mostly just for the hostages, of course, talks a lot and holds large demonstrations, but still strongly opposes calls to refuse army service. So, in practice, almost the entire supposed “anti-war” camp is actively supporting the continuation of the genocide by physically taking part in it and opposing any meaningful action.
I still hold the opinion that only outside pressure, perhaps boosted by internal chaos, can stop the genocide. I do still have a tiny bit of hope that diplomatic and economic pressure, which would make Israel an isolated pariah state, might lead to change, but as time passes, sadly, it seems more and more likely that only military/paramilitary action could bring any meaningful change. The way Israel and the US are currently cooperating makes me fear that such military action would only be taken as part of a large-scale regional or global clash that we might be heading toward.
Do you think there’s any possibility that the Israelis will get rid of the current government somehow? As a militant antizionist, you very often denounce the fact that the zionist Israeli society is rotten to the core. Do you see any sign of change that might show up in this situation? Brave minorities standing up, revolts or dissident rebellions?
I don’t believe Israelis are going to get rid of the current government. It seems like they lack the courage to take the radical and militant steps that are needed in order to overthrow the government. But even if they did manage to do it, I have zero hope for any alternative government. Israeli society is sick beyond repair at the moment, and I think it would take a massive process of tearing down and rebuilding to see a better society emerge on the other end of this dystopian nightmare we’re witnessing right now. This process, though, could only start once Israel reaches a tipping point and collapses – an overwhelming collective trauma that would force change.
On the question of civil war, which Israelis have been talking about non-stop for decades – even though we are closer than ever to such a scenario – I have trouble believing that there could ever be a real civil war within Israeli-Jewish society. The so-called “liberal left,” which has been warning endlessly of “brotherly war,” doesn’t seem to have the guts to take any militant action. I can see a scenario, though, in which Israeli Jews take their extermination campaign to the next stage and force Palestinian citizens of Israel into a civil war.
During these difficult months you decided, eventually, to leave the country and move abroad. There are many Israelis apparently doing the same in these times. What do you think of this sort of new spontaneous diaspora, from Israel this time?
It is not surprising. Over the past few decades – while Israelis continue saying how much they love their country and that they “have no other land” – acquiring dual citizenship, a second passport, has sort of become the “Israeli dream” among a large segment of the population, mostly, but not exclusively, consisting of Israeli so-called “liberals.” I think we’ll see more of it as the situation continues to deteriorate. Eventually, when Palestine is finally liberated, I believe that many Israelis would refuse to accept their loss of privileges and would rather emigrate than actually live as equals together with the Palestinians. When I talk about equality, it includes, of course, land back, reparations, redistribution of property, etc. – not just political equality.
Do you agree with those who say that Israeli is going through its own suicide? What do you foresee will happen in Israel in the next future?
I’ve actually been talking about this “national suicide” quite a bit back when the genocide just started, and even before that. I think Israel went to an annihilation war armed only with a double-edged sword. This genocide has definitively doomed Israel. It just blitzed right past the point of no return. I really have no idea what it will look like, or how many people and countries will be sacrificed in the attempt to prevent it, but I am certain that Israel is on its last legs. Twenty-two years ago, I told my dad that Israel would not make it to its 100th “Independence Day” (it is now at 77). I still believe that.
You grew up as an Israeli, in a fully zionist social environment. But your anti-zionism couldn’t be brighter and tougher. What has been the path to your ideas and positions? And how do you feel as an anti-zionist in Israel? Do you think there is room for the growth of a different consciousness of the colonialist nature of the country?
My path to anti-Zionism was rather unique, actually. I was pretty much a natural-born anarchist. I rebelled against any authority since age 0. When I was 13 or 14 years old, I discovered punk music, got into the punk scene, and realized that it was much more than just music. There was strong political awareness in the scene, with many anarchist and pro-Palestinian activists. Some of the most influential bands were radical anti-Zionist anarchist bands, along with political-oriented fanzines and more. For the first time in my life, I was exposed to the actual reality beyond the Zionist tunnel vision I was raised with. By the time I was 15, I had already been beaten up by cops, arrested at demonstrations, played in a band with a song titled “I Hate Israel,” and declared that I would refuse army service. Once I saw the reality for what it was, there was no going back.
The local punk scene, by the way, is nothing like that anymore, unfortunately.
Do you ever get to imagine a future where Palestine can be free and everyone could live in peace together? A one-country for Jews, Muslims, Christians and everyone? How do you think people should name this country? Is there any possibility that a non-zionis Israel, as a land for the jews, still might co-exist with a Palestine, or do you think this might not be possible?
I definitely can imagine it, and I believe we will arrive there someday. Those of us who survive what’s to come before that, at least. There is no need to name the country, it already has a name: Palestine. I’m not sure what’s a “non-Zionist Israel”. The whole idea that there is a territory where Jews have more rights than others seems inherently discriminatory to me, and it cannot and should not exist, in the long term.
Giornalista, fondatrice di Kritica.it. Puoi leggere suoi articoli e saggi su MicroMega, Gli Stati Generali, Africa ExPress. Ha vinto diversi premi fra cui il Premio Luchetta – Stampa italiana nel 2022.